It can be a challenge to help everyone in a diverse class or team setting. But a few simple things can help a wider range of improvisers.
Notes can be confusing for some students because of communication differences. This episode discusses what teachers can do to help improve and resolve some of these communication issues around questions and notes.
Why can’t a student just ask for clarification? That can be loaded in some improv cultures (for now), and as such it can put a lot of burden on some students. Classes can be structured to make this a bit easier for everyone, while also still maintaining structure and accounting for time limitations.
Table of Contents
Listen
Currently released (early access) to paid supporters. Episode public on Sept 10, 2024 at NeurodiversityImprov.com and on your favorite podcast app. Become a paid supporter and get access on Sept 3rd.
Survey
Please let me know what you think about Characters (feedback on scenes and sets) BELOW. Your voice on these shows helps others learn, feel seen, and provides a deeper insight into other neurotypes learning and performing improv. Input from this survey will inform a later episode in this season, or maybe next season depending on the input! You can also do past surveys from this page at any time.
Thank you for your generous support to the improv community, and lending your voice to the show!
Resources mentioned in episode series
- Neurodiversity & Improv Episode 13: Improv and being Misunderstood
- Double Empathy Problem: Autism and the double empathy problem: Implications for development and mental health
- This week’s survey (above!)
Your Voice
- Let me know what you have experienced as a neurodivergent improviser! Answer THREE QUESTIONS here!
- And of course, check out this week’s survey, above.
Become a Supporter
Follow this podcast for free anywhere you find podcasts or join as a subscriber (free) here: NeurodiversityImprov.com
You can get bonus content, early access, and more by supporting the show! Go to NeurodiversityImprov.com to become a paid supporter, join our community, support a new diverse voice, and access additional content and resources. If this is something you’d particularly like to access and cannot financially afford, please let me know and I’ll help.
Paid support will help this podcast come back for a third season, and help keep all full episodes and articles free for those who need access. Paid bonus content is additional perspective and resources on these topics.
If this podcast helps you with your teams, performance or practice, events, coach or teach, please consider supporting this labour. It is an extensive amount of research, writing and editing to make each episode and I don’t currently have in-person access to do other work to support this podcast. You can also choose one time support here (buy me a coffee button).
Your support of any kind directly helps these improv shows exist and continue! Thank you so much.
About
Created and episode written by Jen deHaan, an autistic + ADHD improviser.
Edited and produced by StereoForest.com. Join the StereoForest newsletter for all improv podcast and show updates at members.stereoforest.com.
This podcast is released every second week on Tuesday, on NeurodiversityImprov.com and wherever you find podcasts.
Plugs
Classes and free improv jams and shows: flatimprov.com. Fun improv stuff at Discount Improv.
Follow for updates:
Join the StereoForest Discord and discuss this show and neurodiversity in improv!
Transcript
Speaker A - [00:00 - 00:28]
Hello, improvisers. This is episode number 17 of the Neurodiversity and improv podcast. Welcome. I'm Jen de Haan, and I'm a neurodivergent improviser, and I'm about to just dump all over you about the intersection of improv and neurodivergence. Now, these episodes
Speaker A - [00:28 - 00:48]
are intended to help improviser of all neurotypes, because all of us are in teams and we're in classes with each other, and that means we're all performing improv together. So it helps to know about some of these communication differences that exist between us, so we can all improvise together better
Speaker A - [00:48 - 01:07]
But before we get started real quick, I'm only speaking for myself and my own lived experience in these episodes. Everyone's experiences are different and it's based on both their neurotype and the unique support needs that they have and the unique way that they were socialized and raised and where they're
Speaker A - [01:07 - 01:26]
from. My ideas in these episodes, and those of any guests or anything that I might read from another person, they might not be right for you. And that's perfectly fine. They are not right for everyone. The words that I use and the things that I do are just my own preferences based on my own
Speaker A - [01:26 - 01:46]
unique experiences and what might work for me. So I'm not telling you what to do. So if I say anything that just doesn't make sense or doesn't work, just throw it away or adjust it or start a conversation. Maybe with other improvisers or your coaches or teachers. Please don't diagnose yourself or any other people
Speaker A - [01:46 - 02:05]
using this podcast. Talk to someone who's a lot smarter than me for diagnosis, or for therapy or for some advice. And finally, these points are just explanations. They're not excuses. Neurodivergent humans can't change the way that we're wired. No neurotypes can, but we can try to
Speaker A - [02:05 - 02:24]
understand how we're wired better and work with that. And we can understand how other people are wired better and communicate with them the best that we can. And finally, if you find this podcast useful, I would love it if you would just share it with your improviser friends. You can read a review it on Apple Podcasts if you
Speaker A - [02:24 - 02:43]
like. That would be great too. And if you're able to support any of this work at Neurodiversity Improv Comm, that's really appreciated. Any of those things will help me keep this thing going. And with that out of the way, let's move on to the episode number
Speaker A - [02:43 - 03:01]
17. All right, so for this episode, we're going to be talking about what teachers can do to help improve some of these communication issues around questions and notes. So I've been going on about this particular topic for the past
Speaker A - [03:01 - 03:21]
two episodes. Episodes 15 and 16 are also about notes in improv sessions. Episode 15 is going to define why this is an issue in the first place. Why can't we just ask a question to get clarification in the notes after a scene? We can. But what are some of the
Speaker A - [03:21 - 03:40]
issues that can arise from that? What are people experiencing when they don't understand a note? Episode 16 gets into what students experience and some tips for what students can do in the notes section. If they don't understand something or need a little bit more time to
Speaker A - [03:40 - 03:59]
process, and like I did in those episodes, I'll be using the words scene or set just like I did there interchangeably. I'll be using the words teacher, coach, and director interchangeably. This is just talking about any time in the notes or feedback section or advice that you're given. All of those
Speaker A - [03:59 - 04:19]
things are relevant to this conversation. So as I discussed in those episodes, these challenges exist because of the differences in communication. And this is because there's so many different neurotypes. It's scientifically established that there are very big differences in communication and
Speaker A - [04:19 - 04:32]
understanding things between, for example, autistic and holistic people, which refers to non-autistic people. This has been studied. It's been proven. It's oftentimes discussed in the context of a double
Speaker A - [04:32 - 04:52]
empathy problem. And of course, that's not the only thing that exists. There are many different cases where there can be a gap in understanding during the notes. For example, you just get a note and you haven't learned that particular thing in improv yet. So there's many different cases where this is relevant. And of course, take it all with
Speaker A - [04:52 - 05:11]
a big grain of salt. I'm just one person in the community, and there's so many different ways of doing improv and giving feedback. In some cultures, this might not even be relevant if everybody is sort of communicating in the same way. It might not be relevant if you're on a team or with a coach that you've
Speaker A - [05:11 - 05:31]
worked with for a long time, you might not experience these things. But if you are in a group with a lot of diversity or with a new team, these things you might hit. So what are some of these issues? So in the previous episode, I went over some of the communication issues that can occur between students and
Speaker A - [05:31 - 05:50]
teachers in an improv class. I'm going to move quickly through this list because it was in the last episode, episode 16. So please head back to that one if you missed it and you want a little bit more information on these. So a lack of directness, if anything is left to subtext or say you're trying to
Speaker A - [05:50 - 06:10]
be a little bit more gentle with a note if you're teaching or a little bit more high level about a suggestion, then some students might have a difficult time trying to fill in some of those gaps as easily as other students can. There can be issues around verbal abilities in scenes. It can help
Speaker A - [06:10 - 06:29]
to be understanding that some students may have different verbal abilities in a scene than they have when they're outside of the scene, or there also might be issues around perception just outside of a scene that make verbals a little bit more difficult for the student to use during this time in class
Speaker A - [06:29 - 06:49]
Some students might also have a need for a longer processing time after the scene or after your notes, and able to even form a follow up question. Say that follow up question might be what they need clarified or expanded upon to understand. They have to figure out what that
Speaker A - [06:49 - 07:08]
even is before they ask. Similarly, some students might be bottom up thinkers if you don't know what that is, episodes three and four will give you a explanation for what bottom up thinking in relationship with improv is. But in a nutshell, bottom up thinkers mean that they need more time
Speaker A - [07:08 - 07:28]
to process details before they get the big picture, or the gist. That big picture or gist that they're looking for could be about the scene, or about your notes about the scene. And finally, students might just have a long history of misinterpretation because certain communication methods are the
Speaker A - [07:28 - 07:47]
social norm and they have a different communication method. So being misunderstood is very common for them. And they are used to struggling to understand. And this can lead to anxiety asking questions for the fear of being rude or their question
Speaker A - [07:47 - 08:06]
being seen as unintelligent because oh, it's so obvious to other people that share the same communication style as the coach or teacher and so on. So even if a student does understand the note they might be processing to try to see, do I really understand the note? Because a lot of times I don't I mean, you got to remember they're
Speaker A - [08:06 - 08:25]
also learning improv at the same time. So even if they do get it, sometimes they might be questioning themselves. So for these reasons, students might need to ask for clarification of the notes. In these cases, it's not to question what you said, but just to be able to clear up some of the
Speaker A - [08:25 - 08:45]
disconnects from interpreting the scene or interpreting your notes so they can make a better connection between the scene and your notes, or understand just the note itself. This list surely isn't complete, and it's also not meant to shame teachers. It's a
Speaker A - [08:45 - 09:05]
very tough role. I've done a little bit of it and it's tough. So all of this is just to start a bit of a conversation in the community around how we can bridge some of these gaps in our own communities with whatever issues exist in them, if it's even an issue for you in the first place. And of course, I would love to
Speaker A - [09:05 - 09:24]
hear feedback. Input what you experience, what you see in your own communities, and you can always send that along to me. And I have a survey attached in the show notes where you can add your own elements to this particular list, and I'll share them in a later piece on the website. So what are some of
Speaker A - [09:24 - 09:43]
the solutions for this communication breakdown? We're going to assume that the questions are being made in good faith. There's a disconnect there. Of course not. All questions are of course not. Some are defensive, some are questioning the note. And we have to remember that
Speaker A - [09:43 - 10:02]
sometimes students might not even know that they're being defensive. They might not know that they're questioning the note either. I cover a little bit about this in the previous episode, episode 16, but for the sake of this series, this is for when a question is being presented because the student genuinely doesn't
Speaker A - [10:02 - 10:21]
understand the note that they just got. But there's a lot of things you can do when you're in the teaching role for your students. Have a really good hunch. If someone is questioning the note before you shut it down. Try not to get too defensive too often or have that good reason. If you need to pause the
Speaker A - [10:21 - 10:41]
question before it completes, you might think of several different ways of explaining a concept. If you sense that that's what's needed, find more universal means of explanations or more universal ways of phrasing things that might be a little bit more direct, perhaps, or
Speaker A - [10:41 - 11:00]
normalize asking questions in a way that works best for the class and reduces students perhaps noting each other inadvertently or whatever. It's absolutely true that some things will simply be lost in translation, and that's okay. It will always happen, but there might be some
Speaker A - [11:00 - 11:20]
steps that you can take to reduce these losses. If the losses seem to be piling up for you for some reason. And we'll go into a little bit more detail on some of those key areas now. So let's start off with processing time. So one of the general issues I brought up in
Speaker A - [11:20 - 11:39]
that list earlier is the need for students needing a bit of extra time to process what their question is. After your notes, this might be again due to audio processing or the need to sort of translate emotions or figure out social cues for subtext that happened during the
Speaker A - [11:39 - 11:59]
scene, or just figure out the bigger picture of what that scene was about. This can be particularly hard if they're thinking a lot about all the rules of improv. And, you know, there is subtext on top of that. So that can be a very intense time. Of course, as you know, for a lot of students to figure all that out. And then they have
Speaker A - [11:59 - 12:19]
notes on top of that. So for example, if that student has an auditory processing delay with long paragraphs or long lists presented verbally, they might need a little bit more time to think through that. You could even encourage a student or just your whole class. If you're
Speaker A - [12:19 - 12:38]
say, in a zoom environment to turn on captions. And if you're not in that environment, as most of you aren't, you might just want to give a little bit more time, or offer maybe another time to ask those questions. For example, they might want to ask the questions in text by email after the
Speaker A - [12:38 - 12:57]
class. And on this note of processing delays and so forth, it's important to note that this isn't necessarily a disorder or deficit of the player who is experiencing these things. Many neurodivergent individuals do not have a learning disability. Some do, but this is a difference
Speaker A - [12:57 - 13:17]
in communication and learning. And neither of these modes is better. They're just different. Or there could be a learning challenge. So it's important to discuss what the actual individual needs are if they aren't being met. So as I mentioned, one of the solutions might be offering the ability to send an
Speaker A - [13:17 - 13:36]
email after the student has had a chance to process and really think through things and form that question. In these cases, maybe the class or the theater sets up a way to welcome and normalize questions coming in later. This is actually encouraged by the school and the coach. Before this issue
Speaker A - [13:36 - 13:53]
even comes up. And that doesn't single out any students or make them feel like a burden, or they're asking for something extra. If this option isn't provided, students might consider asking in advance about the preferred or possible process for these kinds of
Speaker A - [13:53 - 14:12]
questions. Teachers might also have a preference due to their own scheduling or history, or their own needs, and so on. So to help the teacher know what scene or part of the scene that will be asked about later, students might indicate that they could potentially have a question about this particular scene. After the
Speaker A - [14:12 - 14:32]
class, the student and the teacher could have a conversation about an ideal process to accommodate these needs. So setting this up as standard in advance of the class could help everyone. Some of us love that level of structure outlined in advance. It's like it's relief and
Speaker A - [14:32 - 14:51]
the students who don't need it or might be overwhelmed can ignore all of that entirely. It just helps normalize this as an option, and it doesn't set up the student right off the bat as being a burden or asking for something additional. And students and teachers alike realize that you might not
Speaker A - [14:51 - 15:11]
even know that you need the additional processing time until you encounter some of these things. You might not recognize the need because you haven't experienced the amount of information the student hasn't. This is new to them. All this information that's pouring in and all these lights and sounds and
Speaker A - [15:11 - 15:30]
everything is new, and thinking about improv is new and thinking about performance and an audience and laughter is new and how things flow after a scene is over. You just don't understand what all the variables and data is, or how long you might need to process these things. This can even happen when you're teaching because you're
Speaker A - [15:30 - 15:50]
seeing things from outside the scene, which is entirely different and new for you. And this is all okay to experience, and it's all okay to kind of figure it out along the way. So teachers, when your students experience or you sense they're experiencing sort of these
Speaker A - [15:50 - 16:09]
new things, you can support and normalize all of this by highlighting that the disconnect can exist sometimes and that these things can be hard, and then they can be easy, and then they can be hard again. Oh, no. You know, when that happens in improv, things
Speaker A - [16:09 - 16:29]
seem easy. And then something happens and everything seems hard again. All those things that you once found easy two months ago are now suddenly hard. What happened? I don't know, but teachers giving the insight of that to your students can help them. Some of these insights into the process of
Speaker A - [16:29 - 16:48]
learning improv can help students who struggle with this type of processing delay, and some of us just really live in our heads like we don't want to. But we do no matter what we do. Or we particularly just love thinking about how our brain processes
Speaker A - [16:48 - 17:08]
these things. So, you know, somebody might end up doing like a cognitive improv podcast or something. But encouraging your students to think about these things can be helpful as well. Think about how you think and that can help during the improv question part of class. Okay. So we're going to sit right
Speaker A - [17:08 - 17:28]
in the improv part of class where we're given notes what to do. So being direct, you might want to soften a hard note or have some other reasons not to be super direct, but when possible, being direct will help some students understand better, and adding
Speaker A - [17:28 - 17:47]
that why? Even if the subtext could be there, it can help those who have difficulty interpreting it. So not making assumptions that the students have interpreted exactly what happened in the scene can also help. Because if the scene had subtext, we might be
Speaker A - [17:47 - 18:06]
reading it differently. So being direct about what you, the teacher, the coach saw in that scene, what you thought it was about and what you think it needs. And just be really direct and concise about what the subtext was, what you're seeing that can help the neurodivergent student
Speaker A - [18:06 - 18:25]
understand what your interpretation of the scene was, which is also possibly a lot of the audience's interpretation of the scene that can help them understand the rest of your notes. Or you can ask them what they thought it was about, and then just talk about maybe some of those
Speaker A - [18:25 - 18:45]
differences and refine your notes as needed. This could help you sort of adjust your suggestions in real time, and you can understand where the disconnects might exist for that student, and that's going to help you help them more in future scenes. This approach
Speaker A - [18:45 - 19:04]
might also be a relief to your neurodivergent student to be asked what they thought the scene was about, especially, and just remind them there's no wrong answer. Your interpretations and your divergent, yours is whatever. There's no wrong answer. But offering these options might help your students
Speaker A - [19:04 - 19:23]
also feel more comfortable asking and having some of those conversations. And this might lead to a better understanding by everyone on the team in the class about what's going on. If you do feel that you need to stop a question during the class, you might think that that
Speaker A - [19:23 - 19:43]
question is somebody who's going to question the note or throw a scene partner under the bus or whatever. There's a good reason that you are stopping that question in its tracks. Perhaps just state that it's for time considerations, even if you think it might not be that, it might be
Speaker A - [19:43 - 20:02]
questioning the note. In this case, though, the question might have been in good faith. There's a chance that it might have been. And this then just covers that base so it doesn't make your student feel uncomfortable. It doesn't shut them down. It might save them a little bit of embarrassment or a lot of rumination
Speaker A - [20:02 - 20:22]
and it doesn't really hurt anyone. At least I can't think of a reason that it would hurt anyone. So maybe just say time consideration. Let's table that question for later. Anything that you can do to make the students more comfortable to ask the questions in the first place can help this part of class. Set up the
Speaker A - [20:22 - 20:41]
class in a way that welcomes questions, that you demonstrate patience whenever possible. That you open the floor for questions in alternate ways if time allows. This just makes getting your notes to the student more possible, getting notes that they
Speaker A - [20:41 - 21:00]
understand more possible. It helps reduce misunderstandings due to these neurotype issues or verbal issues or processing issues and so on. Some of these things are very hard to see, so you might not even know that there's an issue that needs addressing. For example, I have a lot more comfortable being
Speaker A - [21:00 - 21:20]
perceived when in character than when I'm not in character. I have a negative history with questions and speaking up in group settings, and I'm not sure that a lot of my teachers would even guess that. So I'm pretty sure this isn't too obvious in a class environment for a lot of your students. So anything that you can do to just
Speaker A - [21:20 - 21:39]
make questions more welcome might mean that these communication channels and these misunderstandings are, well, the misunderstandings are reduced and the communication channels are improved. So that and you might be able to set up some other resources for your students. Perhaps you're at a school
Speaker A - [21:39 - 21:59]
or you're in a tight community where you could set up some kind of mentoring program or buddy program, or encourage your students to go out and chat about improv together and try to learn as a group, you might do these partnerships of more experienced and less experienced and a more intentional way, but
Speaker A - [21:59 - 22:18]
any way that you can help students find the resources that they need. Maybe it's books, maybe it's websites, maybe it's podcasts, and show them that there's this world, this helpful community of improv that's out there. Help them find those resources because they're not all that obvious when especially if you're just starting out. And let's get
Speaker A - [22:18 - 22:38]
just really high level for a moment here in regards to communication needs, encourage your students to try other things in improv, different teachers and different classes and styles, different comedy types entirely, and so on. There's so many neurotypes and so many different forms of
Speaker A - [22:38 - 22:57]
comedy, and sometimes improv isn't the right thing for a certain brain, or it might not be the main thing that someone should be doing. So encouraging, branching out and trying new things is always good, especially when you have a very diverse class. Students, of course, try
Speaker A - [22:57 - 23:17]
in a wide range of just instructors, even in the same style of improv increases their chances of finding something or someone that speaks to them and that they have a better understanding because of that. If you can find other ways of explaining things. So if you are in an
Speaker A - [23:17 - 23:35]
in-person class and teaching things verbally, see if there's a way that you might be able to get text explanations to your students, perhaps you email them a PDF in advance. With every exercise that you do written in text. These different formats can help your students who
Speaker A - [23:35 - 23:55]
might learn in different ways, or might process information in a different format and high level. You can tell your class that if something didn't make sense, maybe somebody was too shy to ask the question that if a scene didn't work for them or the notes didn't work for them, encourage them to process it
Speaker A - [23:55 - 24:14]
after class for a set you know, not ruminate forever, but have them think about it for a while and come back at you for questions. Invite them to have a conversation later with you, or perhaps with somebody else, and remind them that even if they don't figure it out, even if it does remain, you know, a bad scene or whatever in their mind
Speaker A - [24:14 - 24:34]
that these things can also be learning experiences and there can be a positive learning experience even from these negative experiences. This is a challenge for both sides. Communication is a challenge for everyone, but if we just try some of these things out, try new things. If something's not working
Speaker A - [24:34 - 24:54]
pivot, try something else. We can only get better over time, as long as we're trying and giving an honest effort. And the more we try, the more that we get your valuable notes to the students in a way that they can understand and grow from. Remember, they came to you. They came to your class to learn from you
Speaker A - [24:54 - 25:13]
So the more that we can get what you're saying understood by your students, the more that everybody wins in the end. So one thing that I would love to see is some kind of predefined process for asking questions. This process might include something like the student identifies the scene
Speaker A - [25:13 - 25:32]
and asks something like, would it be okay if I emailed you a question about the game of the scene of this scene after class? Or can we pin this one for an offline discussion later on? This helps the teacher you understand what scene is going to be discussed after, and puts the the responsibility on the
Speaker A - [25:32 - 25:52]
student to do that, following up if they need to. They might figure it out later and not need to ask, but it helps everyone sort of identify what might be coming later and doing so. This could be set up at the beginning of the class or before the series starts. You could even practice it to kind of set that precedent and make
Speaker A - [25:52 - 26:09]
students feel comfortable. And welcome to use this option at any time while you're teaching them. So whatever makes sense for you and the theater. This can be outlined before the session formally, like in a welcome PDF or a welcome email during the registration or on the
Speaker A - [26:09 - 26:28]
website, perhaps to set up whatever works, set up whatever limitations or boundaries might need to be in place for the school or the teacher you know, set up what's a reasonable ask or how often these questions are appropriate for the class, but openly encourage this process and define it. It sort of
Speaker A - [26:28 - 26:48]
relaxes a lot of students to know what's acceptable, to know what socially okay, in the class environment. And don't be afraid to change some of these things up if it doesn't work, even if it's established in writing, say, maybe this is something we're trying out and we might need to change it or change what's
Speaker A - [26:48 - 27:07]
needed for your community to whatever works best. And my hope is just that it might make things a little bit more manageable, a little bit overall positive learning experience for both parties so people aren't struggling as much and your notes get heard. So try some things out. And if some of those things don't
Speaker A - [27:07 - 27:26]
work, just try something else. If something just isn't fun or comfortable, move on. Pivot. There are so many options for learning and so many options for practicing this art form. You can find your own path, and that's okay. Even if you're changing forms or you know
Speaker A - [27:26 - 27:46]
somebody doesn't make sense to you, it's okay to move on. You don't have to stick with the same thing or the same people finding your own way, and the style and the way of communicating that works for you is part of the fun. Even though it might not feel that way all the
Speaker A - [27:46 - 28:05]
time. All right, so that's all we have for episode number 17. So as a reminder, these podcast episodes are going to be every second week. You can find articles and earlier episodes at the Neurodiversity Improv Comm website, and you can subscribe there to the newsletter for
Speaker A - [28:05 - 28:24]
notifications. So every time that there's a new episode out or a new essay, you'll get an email from the website. You can also choose to get extra bonus content if you want to become a paid supporter, or, you know, just to support the writing and the production of these episodes, it helps me know that you want
Speaker A - [28:24 - 28:44]
more of these kind of resources to help with your practice, and I really appreciate any assistance that you send in. And of course, if you like this podcast and find it useful, please just tell your improviser friends that it exists. Word of mouth is very helpful for me and very appreciated to help
Speaker A - [28:44 - 29:04]
get the word out there, I'll put all the surveys to go along with these episodes. They're all up there on Neurodiversity Improv Comm. There's a link at the top that says surveys, and you can find links on that page to where you can send them into me. I created and write this podcast
Speaker A - [29:04 - 29:23]
It's also edited by Stereo Forest, and I release a lot of shows and podcasts on that website, mostly improvised comedy show type things. Check it out at Stereo Forest. Com and again, this podcast's website is Neurodiversity Improv Comm that includes articles
Speaker A - [29:23 - 29:41]
about this subject. And if you want jams and classes and online shows and stuff, you can go to Flat Improv Comm, which is another site that I run, and all of these links, you'll find them in the show notes, of course. So thank you so much for joining me this week for episode
Speaker A - [29:41 - 29:47]
number 17. And I'll see you again in another couple weeks. Goodbye
Neurodiversity & Improv: Getting Notes (part 2) – Ep #16
Leave a Reply